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	<title>Comments on: Myopic View of DevOps Misses the Mark</title>
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	<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/</link>
	<description>Part-time musings of a full-time technologist</description>
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		<title>By: her</title>
		<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/comment-page-1/#comment-61211</link>
		<dc:creator>her</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/?p=409#comment-61211</guid>
		<description>even you are over a decade still have the chance of getting in love. Mostly, this is the stage</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>even you are over a decade still have the chance of getting in love. Mostly, this is the stage</p>
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		<title>By: BotchagalupeMarks for March 31st &#8211; 09:42 &#124; IT Management and Cloud Blog</title>
		<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/comment-page-1/#comment-2649</link>
		<dc:creator>BotchagalupeMarks for March 31st &#8211; 09:42 &#124; IT Management and Cloud Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 05:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/?p=409#comment-2649</guid>
		<description>[...] Myopic View of DevOps Misses the Mark &#124; Andi Mann &#8211; &#220;bergeek &#8211; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Myopic View of DevOps Misses the Mark | Andi Mann &ndash; &Uuml;bergeek &#8211; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Good DevOps Discussions &#171; the agile admin</title>
		<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/comment-page-1/#comment-2282</link>
		<dc:creator>Good DevOps Discussions &#171; the agile admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 14:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/?p=409#comment-2282</guid>
		<description>[...] to me that some of the complaints about DevOps &#8211; only a little here, but a lot more from Andi Mann, Ubergeek &#8211; seem to think DevOps is some kind of developer power play to take over operations.  At [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to me that some of the complaints about DevOps &#8211; only a little here, but a lot more from Andi Mann, Ubergeek &#8211; seem to think DevOps is some kind of developer power play to take over operations.  At [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: More outside commentary on DevOps - Agile Operations</title>
		<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/comment-page-1/#comment-2266</link>
		<dc:creator>More outside commentary on DevOps - Agile Operations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 19:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/?p=409#comment-2266</guid>
		<description>[...]  This echoes many of my own concerns and thoughts about DevOps, which have been raised elsewhere by Andi Mann, and Hoff&#039;s entry makes three, which reassures me that those of us with this perspective aren&#039;t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  This echoes many of my own concerns and thoughts about DevOps, which have been raised elsewhere by Andi Mann, and Hoff&#39;s entry makes three, which reassures me that those of us with this perspective aren&#39;t [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Agile Operations - Agile Operations</title>
		<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/comment-page-1/#comment-2265</link>
		<dc:creator>Agile Operations - Agile Operations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 19:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/?p=409#comment-2265</guid>
		<description>[...]  This echoes many of my own concerns and thoughts about DevOps, which have been raised elsewhere by Andi Mann, and Hoff&#039;s entry makes three, which reassures me that those of us with this perspective aren&#039;t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  This echoes many of my own concerns and thoughts about DevOps, which have been raised elsewhere by Andi Mann, and Hoff&#39;s entry makes three, which reassures me that those of us with this perspective aren&#39;t [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Understanding cloud and &#8216;devops&#8217;&#8211;part 3 &#124; 云生活</title>
		<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/comment-page-1/#comment-1410</link>
		<dc:creator>Understanding cloud and &#8216;devops&#8217;&#8211;part 3 &#124; 云生活</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/?p=409#comment-1410</guid>
		<description>[...] manager at CA. Andi has tremendous knowledge of both IT operations and cloud computing, and he had some reservations to the devops concept: [M]ost of the writings I see about devops are really about dev, not ops. As a result, they [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] manager at CA. Andi has tremendous knowledge of both IT operations and cloud computing, and he had some reservations to the devops concept: [M]ost of the writings I see about devops are really about dev, not ops. As a result, they [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: William Vambenepe &#8212; Steve Ballmer gets Cloud</title>
		<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/comment-page-1/#comment-1219</link>
		<dc:creator>William Vambenepe &#8212; Steve Ballmer gets Cloud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 08:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/?p=409#comment-1219</guid>
		<description>[...] Myopic View of DevOps Misses the Mark (read the comments too) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Myopic View of DevOps Misses the Mark (read the comments too) [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Coté&#39;s People Over Process &#187; Links for March 30th through March 31st</title>
		<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/comment-page-1/#comment-1093</link>
		<dc:creator>Coté&#39;s People Over Process &#187; Links for March 30th through March 31st</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 22:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/?p=409#comment-1093</guid>
		<description>[...] Myopic View of DevOps Misses the Mark [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Myopic View of DevOps Misses the Mark [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Coté&#39;s People Over Process &#187; Blue skyin&#8217; &#8211; IT Management &#38; Cloud Podcast #69</title>
		<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/comment-page-1/#comment-1081</link>
		<dc:creator>Coté&#39;s People Over Process &#187; Blue skyin&#8217; &#8211; IT Management &#38; Cloud Podcast #69</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 00:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/?p=409#comment-1081</guid>
		<description>[...] of CA, Andi Mann gets skeptical on dev/ops, and a reply from [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of CA, Andi Mann gets skeptical on dev/ops, and a reply from [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ernest Mueller</title>
		<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/comment-page-1/#comment-1063</link>
		<dc:creator>Ernest Mueller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/?p=409#comment-1063</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s definitely some confusion about what &quot;this DevOps thing means&quot;. DevOps is a nice catchy terse term but it&#039;s vague.  The first times I heard it, it was used in the context of &quot;dev and ops cooperation and hugging.&quot;  But at OpsCamp some people were interpreting it as &quot;Ops people who do Dev to code up tools.&quot;  

In my experience, though, the term is originating out of ops groups, however, not dev groups. I think ops people are more frustrated, if anything, with the current generally slow response from ops teams.

I think there are two major axes of confusion regarding the term.  

One is the differentiation between the (IMO) larger concept of Agile Operations and DevOps specifically.  I wrote &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.webadminblog.com/index.php/2010/03/11/defining-agile-operations-and-devops/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a somewhat lengthy post on how I see the larger Agile Operations term breaking down&lt;/a&gt;, in a way completely parallel to agile development.  

Two is the lack of differentiation of the different roles within system administration - there&#039;s the up front systems engineering of designing the system and then there&#039;s the release, and then the post-release job of operational support.  I think &quot;DevOps&quot; tends to assume all three of these items within &quot;Ops&quot; but it needs to be called out more - in a sufficiently large organization these are three different roles!  Our DBA team here has a bunch of different sub-groups, the &quot;production support DBAs,&quot; the &quot;release DBAs,&quot; the &quot;project DBAs,&quot; and the &quot;architect DBAs&quot;...

In closing, I don&#039;t think that ITIL and agile are opposed at all.  Sure, when people do agile, either development or operations, sloppily, they forget certain quality steps.  However, real agile development, with its test-driven focus, tries to enhance and not abandon testing, performance, security, etc.  Similarly, I think agile operations is about how to put in all the needed checks without requiring months to do it.  And I think that&#039;s possible.  In fact, read Visible Ops (Behr, Kim, Spafford), a book popular among DevOps - they prescribe a phased ITIL implementation and have research showing that top performers that have these processes in place are actually able to accomplish a much higher throughput of changes than ones that don&#039;t.  In other words, control vs agility is a false dichotomy, based on doing control wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s definitely some confusion about what &#8220;this DevOps thing means&#8221;. DevOps is a nice catchy terse term but it&#8217;s vague.  The first times I heard it, it was used in the context of &#8220;dev and ops cooperation and hugging.&#8221;  But at OpsCamp some people were interpreting it as &#8220;Ops people who do Dev to code up tools.&#8221;  </p>
<p>In my experience, though, the term is originating out of ops groups, however, not dev groups. I think ops people are more frustrated, if anything, with the current generally slow response from ops teams.</p>
<p>I think there are two major axes of confusion regarding the term.  </p>
<p>One is the differentiation between the (IMO) larger concept of Agile Operations and DevOps specifically.  I wrote <a href="http://www.webadminblog.com/index.php/2010/03/11/defining-agile-operations-and-devops/" rel="nofollow">a somewhat lengthy post on how I see the larger Agile Operations term breaking down</a>, in a way completely parallel to agile development.  </p>
<p>Two is the lack of differentiation of the different roles within system administration &#8211; there&#8217;s the up front systems engineering of designing the system and then there&#8217;s the release, and then the post-release job of operational support.  I think &#8220;DevOps&#8221; tends to assume all three of these items within &#8220;Ops&#8221; but it needs to be called out more &#8211; in a sufficiently large organization these are three different roles!  Our DBA team here has a bunch of different sub-groups, the &#8220;production support DBAs,&#8221; the &#8220;release DBAs,&#8221; the &#8220;project DBAs,&#8221; and the &#8220;architect DBAs&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>In closing, I don&#8217;t think that ITIL and agile are opposed at all.  Sure, when people do agile, either development or operations, sloppily, they forget certain quality steps.  However, real agile development, with its test-driven focus, tries to enhance and not abandon testing, performance, security, etc.  Similarly, I think agile operations is about how to put in all the needed checks without requiring months to do it.  And I think that&#8217;s possible.  In fact, read Visible Ops (Behr, Kim, Spafford), a book popular among DevOps &#8211; they prescribe a phased ITIL implementation and have research showing that top performers that have these processes in place are actually able to accomplish a much higher throughput of changes than ones that don&#8217;t.  In other words, control vs agility is a false dichotomy, based on doing control wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: The definitions phase - Agile Operations</title>
		<link>http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/20100326/myopic-devops-misses-the-mark/comment-page-1/#comment-1053</link>
		<dc:creator>The definitions phase - Agile Operations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Mar 2010 17:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pleasediscuss.com/andimann/?p=409#comment-1053</guid>
		<description>[...] definitions phase     In case you were interested, Andi Mann seems to have stumbled into the same general problem that I blundered through last month with respect to the applications of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] definitions phase     In case you were interested, Andi Mann seems to have stumbled into the same general problem that I blundered through last month with respect to the applications of [...]</p>
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